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okay I get
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway gatri is
otherwise engaged today on the killings
of Tony Blair out soon black lives
matter is the cry from across the
Atlantic and it's echoing here
politicians though find it hard to join
in and have to add in Brackets so to
speak but so to White lives blue lives
Etc meanwhile the new prime minister
until earlier this week Home Secretary
acknowledges on the steps of Downing
Street and I'm quoting her here that if
you're black you're treated more harshly
by the justice system which makes you
wonder why she hasn't done anything
about that during all her years in power
as the longest serving Home Secretary
ever you have to laugh when they promis
to bring Harmony where there is Discord
at least you do when you're listening to
our first guest Ava Vidal and baby Mimi
I regularly listen to Ava not yet Mimi
as one of her fans on mock the week and
elsewhere and I'm glad she's joining us
on the Sputnik and uh little Mimi is
perfectly poised for this interview and
if she has anything to say I'd be happy
to record her first words on
television AA I want to talk about your
work first if I me you're a fantastic
comedian thank you and you are one of a
generation now
that has begun to weaponize humor for
political purposes the previous
generation in the 80s did that before
they went off to become
multi-millionaires and members of the
House of Lords um but uh you're doing it
now people like Frankie Bole uh are
doing it now with with devastating
effect when you're thinking of your your
uh your sketches your your gig do you
think first about what's funny or what's
funny about what's happening now I kind
of think it it's sort of in the middle
because what I do is I'll tend to write
about what's happening and probably be
angry about it and think oh go how do I
make this funny and more palatable
because I'm absolutely Furious about a
lot of things that happening at the
moment so I kind of tend to do that and
then you know put jokes in it but like
you said some of the sometimes you know
with Teresa may talking about black
lives when she's been home secretary for
so many years sometimes it writes itself
indeed the truth is Stranger Than
Fiction there's the woman who's been in
charge of the Interior Department in our
country for the last six years yeah
telling us without a blush that if
you're black you're treated more harshly
by the justice system something that she
never told us uh before well no and
didn't like you said did nothing about
it and I remember seeing the debate
about deaths in custody and it was
absolutely shameful there was like four
people sitting in the house of common
it's just they just don't care so deaths
in custody strange deaths at the hands
of the police stop in search no one can
no one in the political system Hello
darling can quite bring themselves uh to
say black lives matter no you see the
true answer isn't it to those who say
well so do white lives and so do blue
lives White lives and blue lives already
matter exactly it's black lives that
currently don't matter you're uh a labor
supporter a Jeremy Corbin supporter I'm
a Jeremy Corbin supporter yes that must
be making you even angrier it certainly
is making me angry it's heartbreaking to
me personally because I know how I felt
growing up I know that our parents used
to tell us that the labor party when
they came to this country were the only
people that were welcoming I mean we're
lifelong labor I've been doing um gigs
for the labor party for the past couple
of years and I have been uh I've
expressed my disappointment with them
and the direction that they were going
in so when Jeremy Corbin came back and
brought it back to sort of you know the
the Grassroots level what we expect from
the labor party and he was concerned
about people who had no power and who
had no voice it was just absolutely
brilliant and sort of doing the gigs and
stuff like that they're completely sold
out and sort of seeing the you know when
they were sold out you'd see young
people who you thought had no interest
in voting for anything but X Factor
climbing up on Windows to look at him
through people don't understand that the
power of of you know the draw he has to
people people don't get that popular
power power in the communities in the
streets versus parliamentary power the
people who creep around the corridors of
power that's what this conflict is
really about isn't it yeah exactly
that's what it's about people you know I
remember during the leadership contest
and stuff when I was asked to do some
gigs for certain people there was
certain of his uh his Rivals that
couldn't even fill a of 150 with Jeremy
we had like thousands of people who were
just dying to get tickets and there were
ticket TS outside of Jeremy Corbin you
know think like it was some kind of
Rolling Stones concert going you want a
ticket you want a ticket it to take a
ticket for some of his rals exactly um
now we don't know where this story is
going to go even between this recording
and when we're broadcast on Saturday
yeah but take a punt is Jeremy going to
win reelection and will that be the end
of it in your view I don't think it's
going to be the end of it at all if he
wins I think he's going to win despite
their attempts I mean they've closed
every loophole I mean for it's
heartbreaking for a labor government to
impose a 25 fee knowing who their
supporters are it is as bad is when they
did the anti-immigration cups during the
last the little mugs they were selling
knowing that most a lot of immigrants
support that party they are so willing
to try and get themselves into power
that they just don't care about cutting
us off because at the end of the day
they know that we don't really have
anywhere to go but I'm telling them this
if they don't stop doing what they're
going to do the GRE green party is going
to have a massive surge because that's
where I'm going now tell us uh about
your career now Mimi is 12 weeks old she
is yeah uh luckily she's got stage
presence already you could probably take
her on the stage of uh mock the week uh
what's coming up what have you got in
front of you at the moment I'm just
doing little bits of Comedy here and
there standup gigs I'm trying to do a
bit more writing now I was writing at
the telegraph ask you about that how
much writing do you do whenever I'm
asked or if I feel really strongly about
a story I can write to an editor and say
look could I do a piece so I did a piece
on Jeremy supposedly being sexist that
just really annoyed me um so yeah so as
much as I want really but I want to do
something a bit more long form like a
book maybe about the state of racial
politics in this country at the moment
because it is ridiculous I think at this
I think it's a worldwide thing I think
black people and Muslim people and I
know they overlap are being gaslighted
globally really you know if you can see
a newspaper heading and it was say
Muslim man terrorist and a white person
does the same thing and it goes Lone
Wolf and we keep telling you and
pointing this out I can't believe
collectively that the world can't see
what's going on so to me you know I want
to get into the fact that I think it's
kind of deliberate and it's provocation
at this point a bit of divide and Rule
is always uh always good let's look at
the United States I don't know what your
relations are with the United States or
uh whether just as a black person in
Britain you can't help but hear the echo
but the retort of gunfire is
deafening it seems like hardly a week
goes by without a black person being
being gunned down by a white police
officer in a blue uniform um and all of
this under a black President Barack
Obama I know he's a complete
disappointment to to a lot of people I
actually beli do you agree she said he's
disappointment too um I actually think
Jeremy like people always talking about
Barack Obama being assassinated but I
think that Jeremy will be more physical
danger than Barack Obama because he's
actually challenging The Establishment I
think in terms of black lives matter
it's going to resonate with you as a
black person here cuz you're seeing
people who are dying for looking like
you and you know the Bahamas have put
out a warning to black people traveling
to America to be careful and not long
after the Trayvon Martin case my son
who's 17 now and 6'3 went to Florida and
I was on tender hooks the whole time he
went with his dad saying like don't go
out don't do this don't do that don't
run anywhere don't look at these people
too much try and stay near the hotel be
safe you know it was kind of it's scary
it's absolutely terrifying that that
this kind of thing is happening in you
know but what I don't know I think it's
it's going to
take as Malcolm X said you know the
oppressed don't willingly give over the
power they're going to fight for it and
I'm really proud to see what they're
doing over there and the fact that
they're out every day and they're
marching every day and they're saying
we're not having it anymore well amongst
the very youngest people that's true but
the uh baby boomer generation of black
politicians
uh even more than President Obama have
really lost their way they started out
uh with a very clear uh path in their
mind they formed a black Congressional
caucus and they had demands but nowadays
they're kind of uh anybody's I mean they
they were whipping people in to vote for
Hillary Clinton even though Bill Clinton
put more black people in jail than any
any president in the history of the
United States what do they call our kids
super Predators or something yeah I mean
I don't know I just think that when
people get to a certain level I think
it's going to take people with the
personality of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy
Corbin to break the status quo because
unfortunately as they say power corrupts
and the higher up you get and they see
the little perks and stuff that they can
get from it or they you know other
things kick in as well like they're
scared for their family they just want
to make a living they want to be able to
provide for their family and stuff so
then they become less vocal on these
things so that's the way it tends to
work it's sad really I mean uh we've had
we had of course you quoted them the
great Mar X we even had for a relatively
brief period of time the Reverend Jesse
Jackson radical leaders who had a
following on the street we don't really
have that at the moment it's quite
incoit the young black people and their
allies white and other uh mixed race uh
people that are out there on the street
uh with them you think that black lives
matter resonates here too um we've got
as you alluded earlier more than our
fair share of deaths in custody and
deaths at the hand of the police and so
on is that going to break out into the
political system are you going to
feature that on stage in your work I
already have a couple of years ago when
trayon Martin was killed I think I did
the first um demonstration outside the
US Embassy trying to draw the parallels
between what is happening in the UK to
what is happening in the US and I've
often been on Twitter and stuff talking
to us activists and because you know
they'll often post things like this
amount of black people were killed in
America and one black person was killed
in England and I was like hey don't let
it fool you we might not have the guns
that you have but they call it something
different I mean I was a prison officer
for 5 years as well so I saw the system
up close and I saw how it worked
somebody dying in Restraint or dying of
a heart attack or dying of xixia it's
still the same thing we might not be
dying in the same method that you're
dying if you look at Brazil and look at
the amount of black people who die at
the hands of authorities over there as
well it's it's worldwide so yeah I'm
very much hoping and praying that people
will see that make the connection and
stop competing with each other over it
what about a British version of uh
Orange is the New Black you could write
that a Videl thank you very much and
Mimi thank you darling you are just
wonderful you stole the show us coming
up after the break the attempted
crucifixion of Jeremy Corbin went off
half [ __ ] this week find out how after
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this welcome back to Sputnik one of the
most unedifying spectacles in Labor's
116e history has been played out over
the last 10 months with full State
approval and the complicity of the state
broadcast of the BBC the overwhelming
Mandate of the British opposition leader
has been systematically subverted with
the full scale collaboration of most of
his own MPS it has been in the words of
Oscar wild the Unspeakable in full
pursuit of the uneatable helping us
through all of this is an upand
cominging young labor man Matthew Turner
a writer on the independent and other
places including evolv of politics thank
you very much Matt for coming on the
Sputnik most of our viewers know what's
already happened yeah let me turn to
what's happened since the national
executive committee by a majority of
four uh put Jeremy Corbin back on the
ballot paper and we thought that's it
now we've got plane sailing to a
leadership election it's gotten rather
complicated in the last 48 hours tell us
about
yeah yeah it has I mean um the 18 to 14
vote for Jeremy Corbin was a surprise to
me it was outstanding um but straight
afterwards there was a motion after
Jeremy Corbin had left um to suspend
labor party members who haven't been
members for more than six months um
voting completely and they had to change
the registered supporter fee all the way
up to
£25 um which does dis disenfranchise um
130,000 new members who have joined to
support Jeremy Corbin's policies in the
last few weeks um since then they have
also tried to put a ban on new union
members too the six- month ban applies
for that as well um so it might not be
the Victory lap that we thought it might
be um they are putting out all the stops
to kind of rig the rig the system well
of course they can only do it uh because
of the here today gone tomorrow national
executive committee that they have a new
one will be elected in September it's
likely to be overwhelmingly Pro Jeremy
Corbin uh but in the [ __ ] end of the
tenure of this NEC uh they are as you
say pulling out all the stops now as you
know I've been around labor politics for
almost half a century and even I haven't
seen anything quite like this the
members who've been
disenfranchised seem to me to have a
copper bottomed legal
challenge uh at their disposal because
they joined and there was never a
whisper that they wouldn't have the
rights which have now been taken away
from them in as you say quite dubious
circumstances and the unions
particularly unite the most important
Union that gives labor millions of
pounds a year they're not going to take
this lying down are they no no I don't
think so and I don't think the members
should either obviously even the
challenges Andel Eagle only two days ago
was urging people on National Television
to sign up to vote in the leadership
election when never mind that Gloria
Pierro was writing in the sun asking its
readers to join the labor party to
overthrow her own leader couldn't make
that one up but go on no no I mean on on
that you know I couldn't really fathom
the irony of Neil kinck encouraging
right-wing entryism into the labor party
for the guardian having hunted the left
wing so back in the 80s that was pretty
spectacular um but when members signed
up over the last few weeks it
specifically said once you signed up
that you would be able to vote in
leadership ele yeah it's a breach of
contract uh and any individual who did
join on that basis and has now been
robbed of it has Prim aier a case but it
would be better if it was a class action
A working class action with a very large
number of members taking that to court
do you see any sign of that I'm not sure
to be honest um I think various
potential for it but I think we're more
likely to see a challenge from unite
over the
ban on Affiliated supporters who have
joined in the past six months also um I
think there's definitely a case for that
well this is uh a strike at the heart of
the Trade union relationship to the
labor party it's one of the great
ironies that one of the reasons why the
right-wing of the labor party was so
keen on om of one Member One vote which
is supposed to be what we now have was
to restrict the power of the unions now
that they've got one Member One vote
they don't like how the members vote and
wishing they could go back uh in time
the law of unintended uh consequences I
think that uh unite are definitely going
to take this matter up uh legally but
let's assume for a minute that nobody
who joined after last January uh has a
vote and therefore more or less the
electorate is is as it was when Jeremy
Corbin won the
59% last September
yeah is it the case that both Angela
eagle and Doan Smith are going to run or
is only one of them going to run and
what's the likely result in your view I
think that they will have to settle on a
Unity candidate eventually um I think
it's a bit silly having two Unity
candidates isn't it no it is um I think
they're both going to run for a while um
they're going to poll with members and
see who does best I imagine one of them
will drop out and endorse the other
against Jeremy Corbin um the membership
is a little bit different to when Jeremy
got elected because a lot of the
registered supporters who paid three
pounds to vote for Jeremy last time a
lot of those did join up immediately as
me full members yes um and moreover a
few of the more right-wing labor members
also wanted to leave upon Jeremy
Corbin's election um so it is a little
different Nick Coen Dan hoders all got
columns in right-wing Publications now
that's true there is about 20,000 or so
who did actually sign up in the last few
weeks to vote for Jeremy Corbin's
Challenger nowhere near as many as
people who signed up to vote for him
but I think Jeremy Corbin's got a really
really good shot of winning I think he's
the favorite um you know if if we were
having this leadership election on the
old rules I think it would have been a
landslide um there wouldn't have really
been any point in this leadership
contest whatsoever now they've managed
to change the rules it is going to be a
little bit closer but generally I think
labor members over the last couple of
weeks have seen who the ideologues in
the labor party really are um they don't
want a fairer manager of a twisted
system which is against them like Owen
Smith or Angela Regal they still want an
architect for a new and better way and
that is exactly what Jeremy Corbin
represents and I think that's why he
will get over 50% let's deal with the
runners and Riders then um Angela Eagles
seems to me to be fatally handicapped by
her support of the Iraq War her
opposition to the establishment of the
chilcot inquiry into the war right her
support for tuition fees her uh attitude
to welfare Cuts uh and many many other
things actually she's got uh quite a lot
of black marks on her record that Jeremy
Corbin doesn't have and yet she was out
first and has the support of of the
kinck and the uh Reeds and The Darlings
and uh they're not really Darlings if
you know what I mean but they're Alistar
darling
um is she's going to be hard to persuade
to stand down in favor of somebody
called Owen Smith no I think so um I
think to be honest it would be the wise
move to stand down for Owen Smith um you
know her the last few days of her
campaign have been absolutely atrocious
um her campaign launch was slightly
embarrassing for her of a disaster yeah
um you know the eagle didn't fly really
no it stumbled quite a bit to be honest
with you that embarrassing video where
she's asking for the BBC okay Robert
peston okay Michael Crick and none of
them are there I mean that if you were a
stage performer you would have counted
that as dying on stage wouldn't you no
no of course no it was hugely
embarrassing and I think this is the
main point which Mr Corbin needs to
hammer home is but the challenges are
calling for effective leadership a more
effective media
performance Angela Eagle it's not that
is arguably less effective than Jeremy
Corbin almost certainly um these people
are calling for real leadership and so
far this coup has shown that they
couldn't rid a bath between themselves
isn't that the shoe which hasn't dropped
or the dog which hasn't barked here we
have Angela eagle with all her
shortcomings I make no reference to her
size in that Owen Smith who virtually
nobody in the country has ever heard of
I had never heard of him until I saw him
on the television in this context I
didn't know he was an MP but these
bigger figures IET Cooper Andy Burnham
people who ran last time they're silent
in all of this yes is it possible that
they are limbering up somewhere in a in
a in a room waiting to enter this ring
race this race I don't think so um I
think they've drafted eagle and Smith
for a specific reason I don't actually
think they expect to win this leadership
election but their tactic isn't going to
be to lie down and accept another huge
mandate for Jeremy Corbin it's going to
be to challenge and Challenge and
challenge until he does eventually lose
a leadership election that can't be
allowed to happen though can it uh
you're right uh that might well be the
kamakazi uh
tendency uh
but action would have to be taken to
stop this there would have to be uh some
kind of rule change uh that didn't
permit a challenge every year imagine if
the left were challenging the labor
leader every year precisely uh
especially when we don't know when the
next general election is it will
inevitably uh precipitate deselection
moves against some of the 100 and 72
plotters or uh those who followed the
plotters are they really going to do
that or do you think they might be
planning on an exit an sdp type exit I
think they would rather try and regain
control of the labor party there are a
lot of problems with the sdp exit um
first and foremost is the first pass
post voting system um it will result in
a dum squib for them um most certainly I
think a lot of the labor right
are considering it I know there's been
talks already um well if Andrea if
Andrea ledom won the conservative
leadership there were talks between
senior conservative and Senior labor
figures about creating a new Centrist
party um I can't see it happening to be
honest um because they know that it will
result in Failure the sdp proved that
last time all it did was keep labor down
whereas you know the sdp didn't gain
many seats at all themselves um it was
an absolute Disaster by any means
without a mandatory reselection
policy I imagine they will keep on
trying the only way to Halt that is by
electing a left slate on the national
executive committee elections coming up
very soon and the the well the good
thing is um that the 130,000 new labor
members can still vote in that election
at least at the time of recording yeah
no yeah um Matthew Turner thanks for
joining us on the Sputnik no problem
alas that's all we've got time for but
you can stay in touch with us of course
through Twitter and on Facebook until
the next time it's George Galloway
saying it's been marvelous
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